Once upon a time, there was insurance...

And for a while it was good. Citizens were happy because they could ease their pain after that evil, evil pirate made them go up in flames while they were peacefully digging the ground - a common event on our beloved Nia. But then came along two monsters, Greed and Hax. And the DEVs of the kingdom saw the gathering of dark clouds.

Insurance frauds? In my MMO?

Robot insurance payouts are based on the global moving average market prices of two weeks. This only means completed transactions so it does not take active orders into account. A system where we take the global average of all markets means that it's much more difficult to manipulate market averages. This, however, is also it's biggest flaw - when certain types of robots are only traded at a few terminals, the local prices go down due to the market wars, up to a point when they can be bought cheaper than the global market average. Due to some additional flaws in the mechanism, with good skills and good facilities it became very profitable to manufacture robots with the sole purpose of insuring them and blowing them up as soon as they roll out of the factory. The insurance fraud is born.

Healing the wounds of economy

We considered many options on how we should go about this, but in the end we opted for counting the robots that were used in these operations, checked the actual insurance payouts they received for blowing them up, and then calculated the real average market prices that the payouts should have been in the first place. The difference of these two values is the falsely gained money, their "profit". This is what we had to take away.

We have systematically inspected the transaction logs of all accounts that we could connect to the frauds. The vast majority of these frauds originate from the corporations Menace to Society, X-23, Mahtisoturit, BattleAxe, Not Amused and E=Mk2 but there are many more (the frauds were not necessarily executed by the corporations but by their members without the corps' general knowledge). During the server downtime today we have removed a sum of close to 1 billion NIC from numerous private and corporate wallets.

Now, this isn’t such a large amount considering the whole economy, but it’s certainly large enough to have an unnatural and unwanted impact on it, especially so early after the launch of the game. One of the most important factors in this game, the even playing field has been jeopardized. Counteraction needed to be done.

And they ganked forth happily ever after?

We certainly hope so. I know this is something that a company doesn’t do too often to its clients (which is sad), but I’ll try to be honest with you: Doing this hurts us just as much as it hurts those who just lost millions of NIC. But you all have to understand we’re in the same boat here. We could have started swinging the banhammer around but we feel it would have done more harm than good, so we didn't take disciplinary actions this time. Both you, the players, and us developers have the same goal - to have an ever-improving and expanding game, which stands the test of time. And if this goal becomes endangered, we have to act, whether we like it or not. I hope everyone agrees and this won’t have an impact on our good relationship with you.

Meanwhile, we are of course working hard to be able to activate the modified insurance feature again, and we hope to roll it out in a patch some time in the next few days.

ps. The next blogpost will really talk about the incoming updates and new features. Promised.

Comments for this post

1 ScilyaStingray

lol i knew the insurance fraud guys were gonna get it sooner or later. good job!

2 Alexander

I personally lost over 1 billion NIC.

3 Gaulois

This looks biased and fucked up.

First of all, the insurance return above bot price is extremely important for small corps, as the insurance doesn't cover the modules, and we can't produce them.

I am part of E=Mk2, and I am probably the reason our name was quoted... because I blasted like 20 of our bots surplus to get back some money. (Yes, to get BACK. Because all the materials are purchased on the market. And seriously, you complain because I earned 2-3 millions that way?! Anyone can do that in 2 hours of grind.)
When we blast an Assault, we barely make 150k, which is just enough to repair some T1 modules looted around, and jump back into the fight. That's how we roll, so we don't have to mine all day long in alpha, or slice our wrist over transports missions.
But I can assure you that 98% of our bots are genuinely destroyed in PvP. Just ask... well... everyone else on the server.

So now, Instead of encouraging people to get out and PvP, and still earn enough K to repair and jump back after the bot explode, you want to force us to loose money, and go PvE?

Truly this game has gone in a terribly wrong direction since a few patches.
You already killed most of the PvP, and this is yet another nail on the coffin of small corps.

You should be encouraging small corps, and small scale PvP. Not forcing us to join one of the 3 blobs, or die.

4 Shelts916

LOL, good onya guys, good job!

5 Lucius Marcellus

A lot of people will complain, but I commend you for taking this action. It was well needed and distorted the market heavily while making some people rich with no effort.

6 Alexadar

Good job DEVs.

7 Siddy

The phrase "told you so" doesn't quite cut it here...

8 Gaulois

So I checked in-game... I have 13 death in Assault that could appear "suspicious" as I was killed by a corp mate during exercises and/or to get back the insurance cost.

Bots that costed me close to 900k as all the materials are bought on the market for production. This is a net gain of 150k per bot, which means I earned 2 millions from fraud insurance. Yet, It appears I lost over 20 millions. (All the money I had.)

This feels extremely bitter, and unfair, specially for something that appeared to be a normal game mechanic.

9 Ember

Good to hear, I almost manipulated the trojar market up for insurance fraud, now I'm glad I was too lazy. In too many MMO's subtle manipulations of mechanics becomes the unspoken norm. Spanking the offenders sends a strong message that dancing around the grey lines won't be tolerated. So... much better then the reset penalty release!!!

New insurance could link to a basket of minerals (either directly or via a "market health" ratio, much harder to manipulate) There are also lots of great statistical methods for detecting outliers, skewing averages and such might not hurt to wander over to the local college and offer some bright economics student an internship(code word for making students work for almost nothing)

@Gaulois - You should liaison with a friendly corp that has a strong indy base like IRS. I'm sure we can work something out.

10 HereticZero

No one from Domhalarn alliance got named? Damn we need to haxxorz moar!

11 HereticZero

Also you'd have more markets to get "global" prices from if you'd have corp markets instead of making everything public and open to everyone else.

12 Redline

Good move!

13 Warhawkz

DEV Zoom gets 20 more points?

14 Haesung

As a workaround to bring back insurance in a useable form, you guys could (and probably are) use the updated formula that you developed for "real" prices as well as implement a system like in real life where multiple claims cause the premium on the policies to increase in value. Blow up one bot? the next one is gonna cost slightly more to insure for a set period of time (24 hours, 48 hours?)

This would make it much harder to game the system and implement diminishing returns on scale.

15 Shaedys

They should just not have insurance in any form.

16 MrJake

Well i dont agree with not having insurance. but I prefer the eve model to insurance even if some ship are not much worth insuring sicne they are so rare and the insurance is so low on them. but still these guys should have been banned. because they will find the next flaw and fuck up the economy again. cheaters must be dealth with a hammer. warn once then delete there toon without refunding the ep :) thats even worst then banning them.

17 Jita

as joke have stated since insurances inception insurance should be based on the mineral cost of an item derived from buy orders, not sell orders. When you can buy minerals to build stuff and then blow it up for money thats a broken system. Why they didn't learn this from eve's model I don't know.

18 Smokeyii

bravo. I'd have like to see bannings, but I think this is the best solution. More people might have been butthurt about their mates getting banned. At least this way it levels the playing field a little more. Good move, shame it wasn't fixed sooner.

19 Whys

"Menace to Society, X-23, Mahtisoturit, BattleAxe, Not Amused and E=Mk2 but there are many more"

If you start naming corporation, then name them all or said nothing.
I am sure some people inside this corporation have nothing to do with this and now have to assume that their are inside of a corporation presumed coupable of using an exploit.
And in the other way some people can have used this exploit and their corpo aren't named here.

I would have prefered to see nothing from who did it or see all the name of all the people involved. Blam all or said nothing.
Corporation reputation are not easy to create and with that you just ruined them.

20 Ashar

One niggly thing about this though, is that it wasnt a bug that people were exploiting, it was as far as everyone was aware, suppsoe to be that way. If i find a way to make lots of money, very quickly, do i have to worry about having it taken from me because its not the way it was planned. At the very least those that over used the insurance claims, you should have taken their money yes, but give them back the bots that got blown up. Why should they be punished for taking advantage of a design feature YOU put into the game.

21 Immortalmerc

^^
butthurt

22 Immortalmerc

Whys your opinion is just whining imo same with all the rest of the people that say "its a mechanic you devs put in" you found a flaw in it and took advantage of it = cheating imo your lucky you were not banned

23 Gremrod

Wow, you guys actually posted public corp names etc?????????????????????

24 Whys

Lol your funny Immortalmerc.

I didn't lost anything from this because i didn't use this so called "fraud". But i see my Corp name and i don't see why because corp wallet didn't lost any NIC only some member of the corp lost NIC. That was there action not the corporation act. Why accuse and name a corporation if this corporation didn't do anything.

I would love to see named all the corporation of all the people who used this "fraud", and maybe your corporation will appear to Immortalmerc, and then we will be able to judge you to like a cheater, like all the people do and judge just because their corporation are named.

For what i know as far as your aren't judge guilty you'r innocent, by named corporation and not player you judge all the corporation member for what have done only some of them. Like DEV zoom said "(the frauds were not necessarily executed by the corporations but by their members without the corps' general knowledge)."

But we all know how people read true line and get only what they want to see.

25 Lupus Aurelius

First question that no one has answered - what requirement does it violate? Until you can answer that, there is no violation. Period.

You can not prosecute someone for an activity if it does not violate a law. You cannot claim someone violated a rule or requirement, if no requirement or rule exists to cover that issue. A general rule that could be applied to cover unanticipated situations still has to have some criteria to which it applies. Until you can show such a rule / requirement, you cannot state that anyone violated anything.

WHere is the INTENDED USE defined? Who decides what is intended, and not? And how is that criteria communicated to the players, so they know?

Don't get me wrong, I thought the system was poorly designed and defined, and needed to be changed. However, my issue is with the way it has been handled. To out of the blue accuse people or corps of violating the rules, and summarily issuing judgement/punishement, without discussion or a thorough investigation, is not justice. It is a knee jerk reaction, and to retroactively punish people for lack of the DEVS listening to advice in the past about this issue, and they having stated to several people tht it is working as intended until it is changed, is logically and ethically wrong. Everyone who plays this game needs to understand, that when you allow people to use arbitrary decision, and make accusations, not based on the facts, is not in anyone's interest, regardless how it might or might not benefit someone.

26 Lupus Aurelius

Here are the facts people:
A) Devs put in an insuance system, that had short term(16 days at max skill) life, and payouts that actually allowed you to make significantly more than the actual cost to build the bot.

B) Before the announcement that insurance was being turned off, there was no statement on the forums, in the EULA, in the game description of insurance, no where in game or out that this was designated an exploit or a fraud. People, GMs and Devs, when asked in the past, stated that it is working as intended.

C) Devs were informed, from multiple sources, how this system potentially was "broken", and took no action.

In RL, when you do a Root Cause analysis, you start off with with:

1) What is the issue?
2) What procedure, standard, regulation, etc., that it violates

If you find that there is no regulatory or procedural requirement that the issue violates, you implement corrective action by creating a new requirement to cover the issue. You cannot at that time claim it is a violation of a requirement, only that your system did not anticipate the need for control of something that at the time was not an issue.

There was not exploit or fraud. Because there was no rule / requirement / procedure that it violated. There was no hack, becuase someone did not use out of game mechanics to affect in game performance. The only ones that are at fault here are the Devs, everything else was done according to the at the time published game rules and functionality. Corrective Action at this point would be to declare it an exploit, create a mechanic to prevent it, and publish it in an easily referable source, such as an Exploit Forum or list, and state from this point forward, it is not allowed. To retroactively punish people for something that was not a violation prior to that point is inherently wrong, logically, and ethically.

27 Nujabes

WTF I WANT ALL MY EP SPENT ON INSURANCE BACK NOW!!!

28 Gremrod

Good point about EP on insurance extensions

29 Ashar

Lupus Aurelius put it well, my fear is whats to stop them punishing people again, without warning, after they decide people are making money a way that the devs dont like, even though its not going agaisnt the EULA.

This is a sandbox game afterall, which means we are allowed to do what we like, within the confines of the rules, whats the point if you then change the rules, dont tell anyone, and then punish people for breaking them. Yet another example of the devs driving people away. How about you add some of that cool stuff youve got planned for this game, instead of removing stuff that we actually like.

30 Immortalmerc

Whys all i said to you was your whining nothing more its commonsense that they did not intend the insurance to be used in this way anything else is just an excuse

31 Immortalmerc

i cheated but i did in a way to not break EULA so its not cheating? exploiting a flaw/bug in the game is always a no no in MMORPGs all over you get caught you get banned .

32 Lupus Aurelius

Common sense is the least common of the senses...

33 GLiMPSE

+10 CoolPoints™ to DEV Zoom -- epic "you wuz breakin the rules" troll.

34 Gulliver

Why is it that insurance give money back in return, and not the bot itself?

35 Ralph Law

First of all, I didn't lose anything on this (on any of my accounts) so I'm not complaining because of that.

But in my opinion you made few critical mistakes on the issue:

1) You didn't let us know that doing this was wrong. I personally knew people are going to do this due to the nature of sandbox game.

It is expected for players to exploit the market for profit, and they should be applauded for it not punished.

2) You started naming corporations in the blog post, but you didn't name all of them. Now it seems like you wanted to attack against these corporations.

3) Excuses. "Doing this hurts us as much as those affected"

Another words you are afraid you might lose clients.

I'm personally going to continue playing, unless banned for my criticism, and forget about these mistakes made in the customer service.

I believe your intentions were good, just the execution wasn't really done professionally. It's a young game, and we're all learning and making mistakes.

36 Immortalmerc

Lol your funny Immortalmerc.

I didn't lost anything from this because i didn't use this so called "fraud". But i see my Corp name and i don't see why because corp wallet didn't lost any NIC only some member of the corp lost NIC. That was there action not the corporation act. Why accuse and name a corporation if this corporation didn't do anything.

I would love to see named all the corporation of all the people who used this "fraud", and maybe your corporation will appear to Immortalmerc, and then we will be able to judge you to like a cheater, like all the people do and judge just because their corporation are named.

For what i know as far as your aren't judge guilty you'r innocent, by named corporation and not player you judge all the corporation member for what have done only some of them. Like DEV zoom said "(the frauds were not necessarily executed by the corporations but by their members without the corps' general knowledge)."

But we all know how people read true line and get only what they want to see.

Whys my corp name "Roving Guns" would not show my Ceo when he heard of ppl blowing up bots to get their nic back just before the insurance ran out said if they were gonna do that they would have to buy their bots off the market other than out of corp store and in general RG has not blown up any bots for profit

37 Immortalmerc

and your corp did nothing unlike RG ceo said not to we were not named see how that works?

38 Immortalmerc

what 1 person with RG tags dose reflects on all of RG as a whole so we must not act as if we are the only ones our actions show to people who we are

39 Raiser

Thanks Dev. I really like your courage handeling this item.

And to all the compainers: Do you really never had a bad feeling or where worried that you are using an exploit? Really really not??

We are playing Agents of Megacorporations. This it no democracy. There is no trial or lawyer, only a scentence.
The upper management is accting in the best interest of all of us. Play/Be fair and have fun. My advice for in-game and real life.



40 Nujabes

WTF I STILL HAVEN"T RECEIVED MY EP...

41 Deadmeet

"So I checked in-game... I have 13 death in Assault that could appear "suspicious" as I was killed by a corp mate during exercises and/or to get back the insurance cost.

Bots that costed me close to 900k as all the materials are bought on the market for production. This is a net gain of 150k per bot, which means I earned 2 millions from fraud insurance. Yet, It appears I lost over 20 millions. (All the money I had.)

This feels extremely bitter, and unfair, specially for something that appeared to be a normal game mechanic."

You tried to fraud.
You lose
Don't complain... consider that as a fine for frauding

42 Deadmeet

"Menace to Society, X-23, Mahtisoturit, BattleAxe, Not Amused and E=Mk2 but there are many more"

If you start naming corporation, then name them all or said nothing.
I am sure some people inside this corporation have nothing to do with this and now have to assume that their are inside of a corporation presumed coupable of using an exploit.
And in the other way some people can have used this exploit and their corpo aren't named here.

I would have prefered to see nothing from who did it or see all the name of all the people involved. Blam all or said nothing.
Corporation reputation are not easy to create and with that you just ruined them.

> This is the role of corporation leader to choose their members and this is their responsability.

So, growth slowly, choose and test your members (instead of publicly recruting everything just to outnumber the enemy) and your corporation name will be preserved. (this is the same in reality, so, to me, it's a good thing).

43 Jelan

lol, just lol at the DEV's inability to actually talk to its customer base. If they'd actually approached the people in question they could have had a win win no drama result. As it is they've just demonstrated that they need to recruit someone that understands customer service.

On an unrelated note, I work in Customer Relations Management and am available for the right price

44 GLiMPSE

I would not allow Jelan to manage my Customers or my Relations.

-GLiMPSE™

45 Zirpc

This was handled really badly by the DEVs. People told you exactly what they were doing and they also suggested that you would change the broken system. You didn't even tell them to STOP it. Seems to me you can't take the blaim for screwing it up so you punish someone else. They did nothing against the EULA, it's a goddamn sandbox game and people can do insurance frauds if it's possible.

46 Outlaw

they already happen in eve so this can be expected

47 Lupus Aurelius

Well, after my statement yesterday, about Mancs, after a long convo, agreeing that I was correct and that the NIC i had was legitimately earned, turned around today and arbitrarily removed it again, after a 2 hour convo trying to show that even though I had not personally earned NIC or advantage thru this, because of my association to the corp and the activity, i was guilty.

Of course, he proceeded to remove that NIC again. Trolls, have your fun, I know the "Umads?" are coming...

People, all of us, the entire customer base, need to be concerned how these issues are dealt with and resolved. When an individual can arbitrarily set a criteria, unpublished, and state that a paying customer violates that criteria, THEN ALL OF US ARE AT RISK!

Anyone of us, ANYONE, can have this applied to them. There needs to be clear definition of what are exploits, communicated in a visible way, and transparent review and resolution process, that assures fair and equitable resolution of issues.

We pay RL money to be here, and at the same time we are the ones that provide the content to make it interesting, that draws more people to this game, and we need to know that issues will be handled objectively, in good faith, and fairly.

WE ARE ALL AT RISK IN THE FUTURE TO THIS BEHAVIOR, EVERYONE OF US, AND WE NEED AS PAYING CUSTOMERS TO KNOW THAT WE WILL BE TREATED EQUITABLY AND IN GOOD FAITH.

48 Dromsex

Right Lupus, exploiters will always get the special treat.

49 Max La Menace

[02:35:14] <*Someguy*> dont you feel sad?
[02:35:35] <*Someguy*> what your corp gonna do now without the insurance scams :D
[02:42:20] <*Corpmate*> Look at most dangerous agents and **** ****
[02:48:04] <*Someguy*> uhhh
[02:48:11] <*Someguy*> anger issues
[02:48:19] <*Someguy*> i just spoke the truth and you get all mad
[02:49:53] <*Someguy*> its pretty muc hsaid on the forums that ou guys are cheater exploiters of the worst kind
[02:49:58] <*Someguy*> no wonder you where doing so well
[02:51:34] <*Someguy*> also. a **** is a person who isnt fully aware of whats going on around him/her, i thought you should know better than to use words you dont understand
[02:51:53] <*Corpmate*> You just talk without knowing issues ...
[02:52:00] <*Someguy*> how so?
[02:52:26] <*Someguy*> didnt you guys insurance fraud? so your saying the devs are lying?
[02:52:42] <*Corpmate*> this is just because of Dev's stupidity ...
[02:52:56] <*Corpmate*> because I still have all of my NICs
[02:53:34] <*Corpmate*> like most of my corpmates ... only 1 or 2 (or maybe 3 that don't log in anymore) got their NICs to 0 ...
[02:54:06] <*Someguy*> eve had the same problem, the had to nerf it as well
[02:54:12] <*Corpmate*> and ?
[02:54:19] <*Corpmate*> They nominate guys ?
[02:54:24] <*Someguy*> cause of people like you who dosnt understand free markets
[02:54:25] <*Corpmate*> or take back any isk ?
[02:54:39] <*Corpmate*> NO, because they know MMO's rules ...
[02:55:15] <*Someguy*> dude if you can make money like that its bound to destroy the free market, it had to be fixed
[02:55:20] <*Someguy*> wouldnt be fair otherwise
[02:55:33] <*Corpmate*> That's not the problem mate ...
[02:56:20] <*Corpmate*> Even if they take back NICs (in fact, i'm agree with this), YOU never say names ...
[02:56:28] <*Corpmate*> Never nominate
[02:56:50] <*Corpmate*> in a real MMO, you won't see any name in blogs/news ...
[02:57:02] <*Someguy*> except they do here
[02:57:08] <*Someguy*> wich is good... they called ou out
[02:57:11] <*Someguy*> you*
[02:57:16] <*Corpmate*> This is just stupid ...
[02:57:22] <*Someguy*> its brilliant
[02:57:29] <*Someguy*> now everyone knows
[02:58:19] <*Corpmate*> 30 guys corp ... max 4 scammers, make the maths ... you'll see le poor % ...
[02:58:55] <*Corpmate*> and now we all have to handle stupids convo with stupid guys (in fact all exept guys that scammed atm ...)
[02:59:11] <*Corpmate*> so, ty for your contact, play and **** again
[02:59:15] <*Corpmate*> Thank You
[03:00:35] <*Someguy*> ill stop bothering you... but you just soore that you got called out like the cheater scammers that you are
[03:00:46] <*Someguy*> have a good day losers



Happy DEVs ? Great !!!!
(You can check you *****ing logs, I and corpmate still have all of our NICs)
Bunch of noobs trying to do a MMO !

Life long and prosper.

50 Myles Norvid

This is just terrible. It was not a BUG. It was a feature. WORKING AS INTENTED, so it was not even an exploit. Bad PR if you ask me. Fix your code, don't punish players.

51 Nujabes

WTB FINANCES EP

52 dOob

damn, I'm spotted :x
Now everybody know that all my frags are fermis' sequer :'(

53 Dromsex

Yes Myles, working as intended and still used for something unintended. Something doesnt habe to be buggy or not to be an exploit.

54 Qatarn

max la menace! IM the guy in your text called SOMEGUY! you clearly dont understand still... the devs can call out anyone they want, they can do as often as they want and as many times as they want. why? cause in the TOS/EULA it says that they fully own the game and have full control, YOUR renting an account, YOU dont actually own shit, stop crying about being called out and suck it up like men... YOU dont make the rules guys = THEY DO

55 Qatarn

devs... awesome job, this was needed badly, for each and everyone of these scumbags you put down im buying more subs!

56 Raistling

Yes, they can do all they want, they own the game. The only thing that we can do to protest against their action, is to stop give them money.
I didn't use assurance problem and I didn't lost ingame money, but I don't agree with the last patch, I don't agree with the fact that they call in public place some corp name. In short, I don't like last changes of this game and the mentality of CMs, and in order to express that, I stop subscription. Byebye

57 Sergent Mac Couille

Thats weird... Nominate entire corporation whereas just 2 or 3 did the mistake ? That's weird... we see the effects on the most feeble-minded: they make the amalgam and insult anyone pretext that the corporation to which he belongs has been cited here.

I think there is a big communication problem, name the scammers (and even then there would have been to violate a law, but in this case I do not know) but why include all the people of a corpo knowing not all are responsible...

That prevent people without common sense begin to insult innocents as the conversation reported above...

And, another thing, why not warn before sanctioning? I find it limits dictatorial, it disappoints me a lot, especially after buying a 6 month subscription ... I hope I do not regret my investment and I amuse myself more than I'll be disappointed in the future.

PS : I'm not concerned, never buy any insurance, that's for people without common sense not begin to insult me...

PPS : Sorry for my bad english...

58 Roader

J'ai acheté 1 an d'abonnement donc je reste dans le jeu (et le jeu me plait), je ne fais pas partie des soit-disant "fraudeur" mais le fait de nommer des corporations montre bien l'amateurisme des dev dans ce domaine.
Le problème, c'est que tout le monde est mis à la même enseigne au sein des corporations avec ce genre d'annonce.
Ce n'est pas bien et ça peut montrer un certain parti pris de la part des dev.
Soit on nomme tous le monde, soit on nomme personne, mais on fait pas un tri sélectif qu'on jette en pâture sur un blog, c'est vraiment déplorable.
On voit le résultat, des mecs qui te font des grands discours moralisateurs en plein jeu... on est là pour s'amuser, pas pour se prendre des trolls.
Au lieu de faire des coups tordus successifs comme ça, moi j'aimerai plutôt voir du contenu... comme par exemple "un système d'assurances" car là on essaye de faire du pvp, mais on croise quasi personne...
J'ai franchement hâte de voir ce que vous allez nous pondre comme système d'assurance... si un jour ça revoit le jour.

59 Roader

English google traduc :

I bought a year subscription so I left in the game (and I like the game), I'm not part of the so-called "fraudulent" but the naming of corporations shows amateurism in the dev this area.
The problem is that everyone is put this together in corporations with this type of announcement.
This is not good and it may show some bias on the part of the dev.
Is called all the world, we call someone, but not a selective thrown at pasture on a blog is really deplorable.
We see the result, guys who make you great moralistic in full play .. we're here for fun, not to take trolls.
Instead of successive blows twisted like that, I would rather see my content ... eg "insurance system" because there we try to do pvp, but almost anyone you meet ...
I frankly can not wait to see what you're going to lay like insurance system ... if one day it reviews the day.

60 Lupus Aurelius

Well, DEV Zoom closed the thread on the forums, censorship at it's best. lets see if comments here get shut down as well...

61 Warhawkz

Prof Lithus says:stop bitching about the fraud ppl,lets move on.

62 Lupus Aurelius

Seems this issue got on Massively's Podcast: http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02/16/massively-speaking-episode-135/

63 DEV Zoom

And here is our response to the interview:
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/19712/#p19712

64 Alandrix

I'm truly beginning to wish the Dev's had just wielded the banhammer, all the whining is starting to get on my nerves.

You can spin it any way you want, any adult here can see the bottom line. Acccept your punishemnt or bugger off, but for pity sakes stop whining like a little kid.

65 Jelan

I'm not one to go on about stuff, but i'd like some reassurances from the Devs that they will handle any future situations like this more appropriately

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